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Re: [HD] Chording Carolan

To: hammered dulcimers <hammered_dulcimers@lists.fmp.com>
Subject: Re: [HD] Chording Carolan
From: Chuck Boody <cboody@mcfmail.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:18:04 -0500
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Hi Bob,

I didn't bother with the tempo things (or much of anything else) on these.  I 
just copied the three abc files.

LLT's comments were very good, as were Karen Ashbrook's.  Truth to be told 
though we really haven't much of a clue about harmonies in those pieces.  I'm 
not even very sure myself (though others would argue) that we actually have 
accurate representation of the melodies.  It seems very unlikely to me that the 
folk process wouldn't have come into play in the long period between 
composition and notation.  I suspect there have already been reams written 
about that issue though, and I have not checked out what has been said.

Another thing about Carolan: I've seen (or rather heard) very few examples of 
his songs being sung even though we apparently have words for many of them.  
Perhaps I just haven't run across them.  I would think it would be interesting 
to hear them sung, though I don't understand the language myself.

Chuck Boody

On Sep 6, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Bob McClure Jr wrote:

> Hi Chuck,
> 
> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 11:31:22PM -0500, Chuck Boody wrote:
>> Here's some abc for Eleanor Plunkett illustrating what I mean.  Go to
>> 
>> http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html
>> 
>> and copy/paste each one in to get notation if you don't have an abc program.
> 
> Thanks for the input.  Yes, I'm a big fan of ABC and am fully equipped
> for it.  Interesting what you found.  Not that I've done an exhaustive
> search, but all the Carolan tunes I've found are melody only.  The
> ones below are interesing.
> 
> Might mention that the second one should have
> 
> Q:1/4=90
> 
> instead of
> 
> Q:90
> 
> which assumes that pace for the L parameter which is 1/8, and is
> tortuously slow.
> 
> While checking out another poster's link which took me to YouTube, I
> realised that, with a good ear for chords (and I'm pretty good at
> that), one can get some good ideas from what is published there.
> 
>> Chuck Boody
>> 
>> =================
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> X:23
>> T:Eleanor Plunkett
>> R:Air
>> C:Turlough O'Carolan (1670-1738)
>> M:3/4
>> L:1/8
>> Q:1/4=100
>> K:G
>> GA|"Em"B2 B2 AG|G2 G2 ag|e2 e2 ed|B2 B2 AG|
>> E2A2AB|"D"A4 ga|"Em"b2ag ed|e4ef|
>> g2g2b2|"D"a2ba gf|"Em"g2ag fe|"G"d2B2d2|
>> "Em"e2 g2 G2|B2 B2 AG|E2 A2 AB|"D"A4|]
>> 
>> X:233
>> T:Eleanor Plunkett
>> C:Turlough O'Carolan
>> M:3/4
>> L:1/8
>> Q:90
>> K:G
>> DGA|"G"B2 B2 "D"BA|"G"G2 G2 gf|"C"e2 e2 d2|"Em"B3 B AG|!
>> "Am"E2 A2 AB|"D"A4 ga|"G"b2 ag ed|"Em"e4 ef|!
>> "C"g2 g2 b2|"D"a2 ba gf|"C"g2 ag fe|"G"d2 B2 d2|!
>> "C"e2 g2 G2|"Em"B3 B AG|"Am"E2 A2 AB|"D"A3||!
>> 
>> X:5005
>> T:Eleanor Plunkett
>> R:Air
>> C:Turlough O'Carolan (1670-1738)
>> O:Ireland
>> M:3/4
>> L:1/8
>> Q:1/4=110
>> K:Em
>> GA|"Em"B2 B2 AG|"G"G2 G2 ag|"Em"e2 e2 ed|"G"B2 B2 AG|"Em"E2 "Am"A2AB|"D"A4 
>> ga|"Em"b2ag ed|e4ef|
>> "G"g2g2b2|"D"a2ba gf|"Em"g2ag fe|"G"d2B2d2|"Em"e2 g2 G2|"G"B2 B2 AG|"Em"E2 
>> "Am"A2 AB|"D"A4|]
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 11:24 PM, Chuck Boody wrote:
>> 
>>> Looks to me as though many of the tunes on that site will work for a good 
>>> dulcimer player as they stand.  Then you don't have to figure out the 
>>> chords :->
>>> 
>>> On the general topic of Carolan tunes and chords:  Those tunes can be (and 
>>> are) interpreted in very different ways depending on what you hear and what 
>>> your musical background might be.  Some have long sections with very 
>>> obvious chords and then shorter sections with all sorts of options.  Others 
>>> (like Fanny Poer) seem very obvious throughout.  And some, like Eleanor 
>>> Plunkett, allow all sorts of various harmonic patterns.  Go to the usual 
>>> abc sites and look for versions of the tunes with chords and you'll find 
>>> widely differing choices...
>>> 
>>> Chuck Boody
>>> 
>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Mark Toman wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You might wish to look at this site:
>>>> http://www.docsworkshop.co.uk
>>>> This guy seems also to be a big fan of the music of Turlough O'Carolan and
>>>> has a lot of stuff including guitar tabs, written music, link to You Tube
>>>> video and a midi file.  I did not go much further on the hunt, but I hope
>>>> this might help.
>>>> 
>>>> I think this guy is guitar based, but in looking at the Eleanor Plunkett
>>>> song he has all the notes written out (I think that he plays on his guitar)
>>>> so you can decode the chords from those stacked notes perhaps.
>>>> 
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Mark Toman
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Bob McClure Jr <bob@bobcatos.com>
>>>> Subject: [HD] Chording Carolan
>>>> 
>>>> I am quite a fan of the music of Turlough O'Carolan.  I know that his
>>>> music was published without chords, so I'm wondering, when arranging a
>>>> tune to play, how does one choose chords?
>>>> 
>>>> I am currently learning "Eleanor Plunkett", and as I learn it, I can't
>>>> help but embellish with chords where I "hear" them.  For those
>>>> unfamiliar with the tune, it can be had and heard in many formats at
>>>> JC's excellent tune finder at
>>>> 
>>>> http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind?P=eleanor+plunkett&find=FIND&m=title&W=wide&scale=0.65&limit=1000&thresh=5&fmt=single&V=1&Tsel=tune&Nsel=0
>>>> 
>>>> Let's take the first four measures for example.  The "obvious" chords
>>>> would be G, G, C, D.  But I can see where an Em might be chosen for
>>>> one of the G chords, and/or maybe a Bm for one of the others.  The
>>>> third measure screams out for a C chord but could conceivably be an Am
>>>> chord.  In my ear, the fourth measure pretty much has to be a D.
>>>> 
>>>> - Is there a traditional/standard way of choosing chords?
>>>> 
>>>> - Are there traditional chordings for Carolan's music?
>>>> 
>>>> - When performing with a closed group you can do (nearly) anything you
>>>> want with the tune, but in a session, you can't reasonably stray
>>>> from what's "standard".  Who chooses that standard or does everyone
>>>> play melody and a select few (e.g. guitar) play the chords?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Bob McClure, Jr.
> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Bob McClure, Jr.             Bobcat Open Systems, Inc.
> bob@bobcatos.com             http://www.bobcatos.com
> "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under
> heaven given to men by which we must be saved."  Acts 4:12 (NIV)
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